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Minutes: Credible Web CG (25 April 2018)



# [Sandro Hawke] Today's meeting

# [Sandro Hawke] https://credweb.org/agenda/20180425.html

# [rhiaro] https://github.com/w3c/credweb/blob/master/minutes/20180411.md

# Sandro Hawke says: are the minutes formatted yet?

# rhiaro says: the script to process them is not polished yet

# Sandro Hawke says: b/c of travel he hasn't checked the minutes, so putting that off until next week

# Sandro Hawke says: @Scott Yates built the calendar. (This is the recursive entry of the day ;-)

# Sandro Hawke says: that we don't yet know if we can get 2 days at TPAC

# Katie Haritos-Shea says: maybe we could work with other groups like "verifiable claims"

# Sandro Hawke says: JSON - LD would be a potential conflict at TPAC

# Katie Haritos-Shea says: let's agree on Wednesday

# michel weksler says: I'll be in TPAC, meeting with Web Payments Working Group and as part of the AC

# [Sandro Hawke] Who is up for meeting at TPAC in Lyon

# [rhiaro] This means I have to add code to the script to display the reactions too, doesn't it.

# [Sandro Hawke] Katie: I'll be there all week

# [Sandro Hawke] Tzviya: I will be at TPAC, but probably booked

# [Reto Gmür] Reto: probability 0.9

# [michel weksler] I'm happy to help add stuff to the script. would be nice to have it recognize "asks" as well :-)

# [Annette Greiner] I plan to try and connect remotely where possible, given the time shift form California.

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] +1

# [Ed Bice] Present+

# [Ed Summers] Here's an event that might be of interest to people in the DC area: http://comoatscale.com/

# Scott Yates says: he is going to a series of meetings in Europe end of May start of June

# Sandro Hawke says: we could meet in July in San Fran. Hoping to have charter set by then

# [Annette Greiner] +1 for SF Bay area

# Katie Haritos-Shea says: asks if we have a sponsor

# Sandro Hawke says: that @michel weksler is asking about getting a space for 25ish people.

# sam boyer says: that he could also check for a space

# Katie Haritos-Shea says: we could look at weeks

# An Xiao Mina says: that Northwestern campus is convenient and could work.

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] I am only available to remote participate... travel is way too costly from Australia unless I can co locate with another already funded event... Sorry

# Sandro Hawke says: it should come after the Global Factchecking meeting

# Sandro Hawke says: he will do a poll to find the best time

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] Google me

# Sandro Hawke says: intros!

# Sandro Hawke says: , thankfully, that the scribe will not be recording this and ask each of you to type something about yourself

# [Jon Udell] present+

# [An Xiao Mina] I'm An. Co-chair with Sandro and completely new to the web standards world but have long been looking at misinformation, trust and social media. Director of product at Meedan, where we build tools for collaborative verification, and affiliated with the Berkman Klein Center, have been looking at networked journalism and networked movements in global contexts. Co-founded the Credibility Coalition, which helped formulate this group. Our focus is on statistical validation of indicators of content credibility that journalists and media researchers are considering, through an annotation workflow that we tested with 40 articles. Just presented this at the Web Conference (just there on April 25), and shortly after Perugia, Italy two weeks ago for the International Journalism Festival. Here's the paper, which @Amy Zhang led: https://credibilitycoalition.org/results/

# [Jon Udell] Jon Udell, director of integration at Hypothes.is (open web annotation). I'm looking for ways to improve the quality of the ClaimReview metadata that's being produced by leading fact-checking orgs, and used (in a limited way) by Google and Bing -- while at the same time, crucially, streamlining newsroom workflow.

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] I work for Deque, and am AC Rep for Knowbility (both Accessibility). Have been on W3C WGs continuously since 2001, mostly involved in Accessibility groups (Chair WAI IG), Privacy IG (IAPP Cert) and Web Payments

# [Scott Yates] I'm Scott Yates, Entrepreneur In Residence at CableLabs, working on all of these issues. I'm also your humble typist for today, bringing me back to my days as a journalist covering school board meetings!

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] I am interested in surfacing accessibly in the credibility claims that are developed

# [Ed Summers] I work as a researcher/software developer at the Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities, and am interested in the use of web archives (archives of web content), and in particular how claims are made about archived web content.

# [Annette Greiner] I'm the AC rep from Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, working as a web app developer at NERSC (www.nersc.gov). We are the primary high-performance compute facility for researchers in the U.S. DOE national labs. I work on science gateways, which are web portals to scientific data and analytics. My academic background is in biomedical science and human-computer interaction/data visualization. I also teach data visualization at UC Berkeley.

# [John Connuck] Hi, I'm @John Connuck, an engineer Facebook on our News Quality & Credibility team based in NYC. I'm especially interested in standards that help us to distinguish high-quality, credible news.

# [michel weksler] I'm Michel Weksler, an engineer on the payments team at airbnb. I am also airbnb's representative to the W3C. Airbnb is generally interested in credibility, and i am too, though this is not related to my dat to day work.

# [rhiaro] I'm Amy Guy / rhiaro. Previously of W3C and Social Web WG, and University of Edinburgh, doing decentralisation stuff and linked data stuff. Now I work for OCCRP (the Organised Crime and Corruption Reporting Project), an investigative journalism org, but I'm not representing them here. I know things about web standards and data wrangling but not about credibility, journalism, or news so much.. but learning.

# [Ed Summers] . o O (DNS is big time important for trust) re: Cheryl's intro...

# [Reto Gmür] I'm with the swiss startup factsmission that wants to promote more fact oriented discourses by putting linked data technologies in action. An open source linked data tool to write claim-reviews for tweets is https://twee.fi

# [sam boyer] i'm sam boyer, i work at Stripe, though that's not relevant here. My interest in this group comes out of my work with social movements, particularly Occupy, and the acute need they have for high-quality information environments. This has since branched out into the problem of information quality more generally, and i've been following and dabbling in technical solutions within the problem space since 2011.

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] A few bio refs are linked off http://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr and my LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/cheryl-langdon-orr so Interest is from Trust and Consumer/ICT end user POV coloured by ISOC principles of openness and interoperability of Network etc.,

# [Scott Yates] Meredith from FB and Tzviya from Wiley and Pat all joined but are not part of the Zulip chat.

# Sandro Hawke says: that we should do a Hollywood Squares screen shot

# Sandro Hawke says: using GitHub for the agendas and links

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] I will certainly not be making all the calls, but will when I am already up overnight on other calls. I came to this group via the IEEE P7011

# Sandro Hawke says: that he may get credibleweb.org or credweb.org

# [An Xiao Mina] It has good SEO too - #3 when you search "credible web" on Google

# Sandro Hawke says: he recorded @An Xiao Mina in her excellent presentation

# An Xiao Mina says: it was encouraging to see how people realized how complex the issues were.

# [Sandro Hawke] https://www2018.thewebconf.org/program/misinfoweb/ Paper on the track

# An Xiao Mina says: keynote was very good from OII on "infraethics" the infrastructure needed for signalling credibility.

# Sandro Hawke says: keynote was inspiring. how badly things are going now, but we can get things done if we all move in the same direction.

# [An Xiao Mina] Luciano Floridi is the philosopher I mentioned -- i haven't read this specific paper, but its title is the concept (infraethics) that resonated with me: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13347-017-0291-1

# rhiaro says: she is still digesting the WebConf

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] Now that sort of access (ref to the new Amazon delivery to car boot offer) has a whole slew of other trust : risks to consider!!!

# [An Xiao Mina] Here are the slides from our Credibility Coalition presentation today (I presented on behalf of lead researcher @Amy Zhang) https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/11MzfbhicQG5jNwrilr8DXPbFuRVuyw4t1xCowb0HfTo/edit#slide=id.g36d573ab80_0_76

# Sandro Hawke says: the papers were mostly academics taking some piece of the web and finding some way to apply some technology. not a lot of solutions that were presently applicable.

# Sandro Hawke says: : Related projects

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] Thanks for that list @Scott

# [An Xiao Mina] was cool to see our group highlighted in a survey paper: https://twitter.com/anxiaostudio/status/989155307216605185

# Sandro Hawke says: @Scott Yates 's list is long, and he's thinking about how we should be interacting with it, and the items on it.

# Sandro Hawke says: could we break up the list

# [Ed Bice] link to list?

# [Scott Yates] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vWE3iOn6yxUsRJyS_mks83m0Gwv_7cK0WtVt-SNsYzY/edit?usp=sharing

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vWE3iOn6yxUsRJyS_mks83m0Gwv_7cK0WtVt-SNsYzY/edit#gid=0

# Katie Haritos-Shea says: and asks what is the mission of investigating all these efforts

# [Ed Summers] It might be worth adding Internet Archive to that list, considering the ways it is being used to make claims about authenticity on the web.

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] OK, good to explore the space, good idea to allow access

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] Sure +

# Ed Bice says: maybe we should reach out to many of these groups to figure out if they should be a part of this group.

# Sandro Hawke says: he isn't sure we should reach out to them until we understand more about what they are doing

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] Agree @Ed some mutualism will no doubt exist, some activities we may wish to maintain a 'watching brief' on some of their work

# Sandro Hawke says: if you see anything missing, feel free to add it to the list

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] Sandro, maybe you want the new folks to see your Credible Web draft

# Sandro Hawke says: we'll come back to this, not have homework about this for now

# Sandro Hawke says: : Moving on... Charter

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] Isn't that the doc on the web space @katie??

# Sandro Hawke says: we don't need to have a charter, but we can and it can help define scope and can guide the work of the group and can have legal implications

# Sandro Hawke says: we want to be as precise as we can

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] think so

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] Ok I certainly scanned that before joining the group

# Sandro Hawke says: (asks) if that approach sits OK with the group

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] In agenda: https://credweb.org/cciv/

# Sandro Hawke says: the content for that comes from the Credibility Coalition

# [An Xiao Mina] R1 candidates https://credweb.org/cciv/r/1

# An Xiao Mina says: this is the first set of indicators around content and context

# An Xiao Mina says: a bunch (and very quickly) about some examples of the kinds of indicators that can be contained in text, such as emotional tone and way more

# An Xiao Mina says: indicators are developed around science articles, so they are most specifically designed around things like climate change and aren't as particularly applicable to breaking news.

# John Connuck says: (asks) if there's a way to evaluate publishers using these tools

# An Xiao Mina says: (replies) that we are working with others to make sure that other indicators are able to be used to evaluate individual articles.

# An Xiao Mina says: that we should look at first- and third-party attribution as part of the framework

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] Is the Trust Project in Scott's List? I don't see it listed as that

# [John Connuck] Sorry, just for the transcript - I think An answered the question - I was actually asking whether this takes into account first-party data i.e. publishers self-providing information whether about themselves or at a content level

# sam boyer says: (replies to John) that there is work to be done with the vocabularies to contextualize some of the content. (Sam, this doesn't reflect what you said, please add in!)

# [Ed Summers] I just wanted to echo that last comment: It does seem to be important to record who is making the claims.

# Sandro Hawke says: that there is a sense that "gaming" can be OK as long as publishers are gaming in a way that encourages best practices

# Reto Gmür says: that we should put into the charter something about getting to try to get the web to be things that are actually true and follow best practices.

# Sandro Hawke says: (asks Reto) How do we find the longterm deliverables?

# Reto Gmür says: (replies) that discourse should be part of the best practice, especially claim reviews. In the end it would be best to have claims and sources and long explanations and I have these credentials.

# Sandro Hawke says: @Jon Udell has done good work in establishing a way to determine facts and validation through time.

# Sandro Hawke says: he's not sure what good it does to have publishers announce that headlines are clickbait

# Reto Gmür says: there should be some ability to review even small claims

# Sandro Hawke says: (asks) if we need to define what's in scope and not in the scope

# Sandro Hawke says: we need indicators of source credibility in addition to content credibility

# Jon Udell says: what's missing in claim review is the establishment of claims as a target for review.

# Jon Udell says: we're not doing enough to identify individual claims inside of documents. When we refer to a statement we need a canonical reference to an individual statement, not a whole document.

# Annette Greiner says: dealing with the gamification of claims is tricky and that we need to deal with the fact that something is disputed.

# [An Xiao Mina] With regards to the CCIV r1 document, I'll be happy to answer any questions, and we should see if @Amy Zhang (lead researcher) can join for a future call. It's a very small study, and I'm not sure how many of these indicators are ready per se, but hopefully point at future directions. Paper here on the methodology https://credibilitycoalition.org/results/

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] Thanks everyone... Bye for now

# [Katie Haritos-Shea] Crowd-sourced

# [Scott Yates] I feel that my scribe work was not nearly up to par. Please do add other comments to anything I wrote to fill out whatever I missed.

# [An Xiao Mina] Happy to do a one-off presentation if that can be helpful, would try to rope in @Amy Zhang (lead researcher)

# [Scott Yates] I'd love to hear that, too.

# [Cheryl Langdon-Orr] That would be excellent in my view

# [An Xiao Mina] For the transcript: we confirmed that it was on the list under "The Trust Project" (great project and methodology btw: https://thetrustproject.org/)

# [Sandro Hawke] https://credweb.org/photos/people-2018-04-15.png

# [sam boyer] me three re: a one-off pres :D